Lewis Hamilton
2015 Italian Grand Prix
c/o James Moy Photography
I’m getting a little tired of this.
It’s hard enough to escape it on twitter, but then it starts to permeate one’s facebook feed, posted and pushed by those you’d considered might have a slightly better handle on reality.
Another week, another witty article, hilarious meme, wistful video of halcyon days past. Oh it was so much better in the 80s. The 90s too. Don’t forget 2004. That was the best. Scary fast cars. Scary sounding cars. Not like today. Today’s crap.
The latest video to do the rounds hit social media and the nadir of reasoned debate on Friday afternoon and soon after had permeated almost every stream of online motorsport-based consciousness. If you haven’t seen it already, and I doubt very much that if you’re reading this you haven’t, it was a side by side “comparison” video of Juan Pablo Montoya lapping Monza in 2004 in the Williams BMW FW26, and Lewis Hamilton taking to the same track in his Mercedes F1 W06 Hybrid this very year.
Oh how people sneered. Montoya had long since passed the line to close his lap by the time Hamilton exited Parabolica to complete his own tour. “What is happening to our beloved sport?”, people asked. Where did we go so wrong? Won’t somebody think of the children!!???
Let’s start with a dose of reality. The lap chosen to highlight those apparently flawless days of the mid 2000s was, of course, the fastest lap recorded in Formula 1 history. Set in pre-qualifying and averaging almost 163mph, it remains one of the most viscerally staggering sights in Formula 1 history.
The lap chosen for the “comparison” was from this season’s Free Practice 2. Lewis Hamilton was bedding in a brand new development of his Mercedes power unit in a session regularly used to conduct race runs on heavy fuel. The majority of drivers improved their FP1 to FP2 best laptimes by over a second in Monza this year. Hamilton, under half a second. We commented at the time on the NBCSN broadcast, Mercedes never looked as though they were pushing.
So we’ve got a car bedding in a new engine, with brand new tyre camber and pressure parameters meaning the teams are still trying to get a handle on changed grip levels, on heavy fuel, in a session where they’re not pushing. And this is the lap chosen as a fair comparison with the fastest lap in the history of Formula 1?
It’s very difficult to paint an accurate picture when you’re working with a pallet of limited colours.
Nico Rosberg
2014 Brazilian Grand Prix
c/o James Moy Photography
How about we take the 2004 pole lap at Interlagos set by Rubens Barrichello, riding high on the emotion of the adoring crowd and at the wheel of the all-conquering Ferrari F2004, the car seemingly of choice in many people’s “Dream Team” as per Formula1.com’s recent poll. Widely regarded, along with the McLaren MP4-4, as the greatest F1 car of all time, it still holds the track and pole position record at the majority of circuits raced in that season.
Barrichello was on pole by 0.204 from Montoya, with the Brazilian setting an unbeatable lap of 1:10.646. Unbeatable in 2004. And a record that stood for a decade.
Finally beaten last season by Nico Rosberg in the Mercedes F1 W05 Hybrid with a time, over half a second faster. 1:10.023.
Where’s that comparison video? It doesn’t exist. Because it doesn’t fit the lazy narrative that the sport is a woeful shadow of its former self.
I’ve got no issue with a debate over whether the current regulations are the right path for the sport. I think it is fairly obvious that some changes need to be made. But the overwhelming negativity towards today’s cars and the narrative that things were so much better in past eras is growing tired and dull. Particularly when the examples used to highlight the apparent disparity between what was and what is, are drawn from such selective grounds as to make them pointless and risible.
You want a direct comparison between the early 2000s and 2015? In 2002 Michael Schumacher had sewn up the title two calendar months ago. In July. At Magny Cours.
Montoya’s 2004 Monza lap was good, but it meant nothing. Barrichello still took pole and won the race. Trotting the lap out as an example of how great the sport used to be, merely highlights that even in a car that fast over one lap, he had no means of competing. Faster lap times don’t necessarily equate to better racing. Formula 1 back then had far more competitive issues than it does today.
But hey, let’s just keep on banging that old tired drum shall we?
The Buxton Blog 
All valid points Will. But let’s not forget that the high altitude of interlagos would significantly favor the turbo versus the old atmo engines. The speed is still fast enough I think, but the show is poor. Grid penalties mean even if Renault and Honda fixed their engines, they can’t put them in without a penalty. So we handicap cars that might otherwise be capable of chasing the mercs. Ok, that’s the rules, but it doesn’t help the show.
Anyway, your point about talking it down is valid. It’s not that bad… And prob not as boring as 2004 was, but there was no Facebook then to complain on!
Interlagos was also resurfaced last year, which made it grippier.
But this blog post is right on the money. Everyone would like to see closer, more competitive racing, but viewing F1 history through rose-tinted glasses doesn’t do their arguments any favours.
I don’t personally care that lap times are a few seconds slower (still) than the peak. I wonder if anyone would bother to count how many passes were made in the 2004 Italian Grand Prix and compare it to this year’s… I’d be interested to hear what the numbers were.
Very true about the resurfacing. But if we want to go down the road of discussing grip, let’s not forget that in 2004 traction control was completely legal.
Will, good point about traction control!
Wasn’t that all the rage with the complainers of those days? “Give control back to the driver” and more such quotes!
Ahh… selective memory is a great thing 🙂
Not only inter lagoons was grip pier but slicks vs semi-slicks back then. Regardless I’m with will and these past seasons have been fantastic.
The frustration, at least for me, is that with today’s technology these cars could be lapping significantly faster. “So what if they all are lapping faster?” We’ll it takes more skill to drive a much faster car, more physical stamina, reaction times and much more. So we would probably see wider dispersion in drivers performance and skills which would be interesting. Seems today from Alonso’s comments and other in the sport, the cars are relatively easy to drive. Off course the competition will still be there but with much faster cars skills would be more apparent. Some drivers have an incredible ability to put traction down without traction control while others not so much. Imagine the difference with another 300hp on board. Exhaustion after Singapore Pauling much higher g-forces throughout the race. Would start separating the field a bit I believe. Would be nice to see. I grew up in Brazil and was in interlagos when Senna finished a race and almost fainted with a couple gears only. Not all drivers had the stamina to do that. Anyways just wondering what it could be…
Will, you are so spot on on every commentary you bring to the broadcast. I am a huge fan and keep up the amazing work.
On the money Will, om the money.
Those who complain most about many things seldom let mere facts get in the way of what they “know”.
“Barrichello was on pole by 0.204 from Montoya, with the Brazilian setting an unbeatable lap of 1:10.646. Unbeatable in 2004. And a record that stood for a decade.”
Speaking of lazy narratives, shame that you’re not discounting 2004 qualifying fuel rules and the fact that in 1st qualifying (the one without fuel level limits), Barrichello set a 1’09.822 laptime, which still remains unbeaten.
Just as Montoya’s lap in Monza was similarly faster than Barrichello’s actual pole lap. Sure. So the actual lap to beat was, what, 0.178 faster than Rosberg was last year? Not the night and day difference the current narrative likes to push.
If we’re going to carry on with 2004 comparisons, shall we add in the fact that modern F1 cars are about 50kg heavier and don’t have traction control?
Your right, of course. Comparisons between eras are flawed.
Sure they’re flawed, I’m just saying that all the “cars are several seconds slower than 10 years ago” comments are as lazy as “we’re fastest we’ve ever been at Interlagos” ones.
With a small difference that one of these claims is still not true (hopefully only for a couple of months now).
Just wait until someone posts a comparison between Bahrain 2014 and all those videos of close racing from 2004, oh wait…
Will, you make very valid points and i agree with most of them. Lap times are always gonna vary up and down cuz the engines are tech regs are always changing. The biggest diff for me is the sound! Just the sound of JPMs engine in that video gets me all nostalgic. I’m putting everything else aside. From those engines all the way up to a few yrs ago sounded awesome and was a big reason that drew me to watching F1. These cars now b/c of fuel flow turbos and what have you sound like they’re farting all the the way around the track.
+1 on that comment. I know Will is adamant the sound has nothing to do with the racing…but as a fan, it gives me goose bumps when I FEEL the cars going by on track. It’s part of the experience and one of the things that got me hooked way back when at the USGP at Indianapolis. Unfortunately no more. I’ll just watch on TV for now on.
Sorry but that’s balls. I’ve always maintained that sound has a direct effect on one’s appreciation of speed. A car that doesn’t sound fast doesn’t look fast.
Honestly for me it’s not so much about qualifying speeds but the race and how it’s conducted.
Current engine- and tyre-regulations don’t allow much pushing to the maximum over a longer period of time. Instead we get drivers moaning on the team radio about it when such (few) scenarios manifest.
The time when 10-15 “qualifying laps” were requested on the radio frequently is pretty much over, the drivers no longer wrestle with brutal amount of G-forces almost every lap but with poor drivability (only few teams got it right), managing fuel, the engine (to avoid blowing it up) it’s poor performance compared to others (*cough* Merc) and tyres seemingly made out of paper mâché. It just creates artificial competition dependant on how hard these various issues hit a team or not.
The biggest difference in the videos to me is the cornering speeds. The cars now, even the Mercs, never look planted and just completely frantic in transitions like the older cars in the days of big downforce. Straight line speeds and acceleration may be up to make up the difference on pure lap times, but terminal velocity wasn’t what drew me to the sport in my teens.
Agreed. The lack of TC has an awful lot to do with it as does the tremendous torque of current cars. I prefer the deft touch required today.
Nice rebuttal on the Web video!!
Too many variables to make accurate “heads up” comparisons between different eras of F1, or any sport for that matter.
Will thought you might make mention of the “straight outta the championship” meme. 😉
It’s purely about the noise. Make Montoya’s car sound like a milk floor and it will seem unexciting too. If love to hear a synced overlay of 2004 sounds with 2015 machinery….. How about it Will? It would prove or disprove the point….
I’m with you. Sound is hugely important. Sync that V10 with a 2015 lap and it’d change opinions.
Good that you mention V10’s….
At a Zandvoort F3 event (before the current turbo era) they first had a demo with a Red Bull V8…………
…followed by the BOSS GP series. When the first V10 in the back of a Benneton fired up in the pits, you immediately forgot the V8. And then the other Benneton came online, followed by an Arrows, followed by…
F1 noise has been broken for quite a while.
My concern is not engine noise. I noticed last year that I could actually hear and understand your comments from the pits, and Lee/Hobbo/Steve’s as well, when in 2013 and before you got drowned out by engine noise. It may well be my ears (I’m old), but again this year voices are getting overcome by engine noise.
They are louder, that’s for sure.
They definitely sound better this year than last. Except the Honda, which sounds like a lawnmower with straight pipes.
Excellent piece AGAIN, thank you. Unfortunately in this keyboard warrior mentality (look at me I have the Internet) these ‘EXPERTS’ need reminding!
Try and keep up the great work.
Kind regards (and MORE power to your keyboard)!
Matt
Hear, Hear!!
Barkeep, I would like to buy that man a drink!
People do have very short and selective memory.
More and more I see people wanting a tyre war as they find it exciting!
Sure it gives us even more to talk about.. But did all those people forget
how bad the tyre war was? I mean, one team (per brand) has a perfect tyre
and dominate like never before! (remember Ferrari-Bridgestone). Never again please!
A tyre is too important (maybe the most important) for performance.
Again a big difference between now and 2004.
I think you are correct will but to be honest the attitude about the Hamilton era compared to the schumachers era reeks of hypocrisy. I am not a fan of any driver but besides the tiresome wine about lap times which is true , I am tired of certain people praising the almighty Hamilton and ripping the boring Schumacher /vettel era as if hamiltons accomplishments are some higher standard. I know I will be called some kind of trivial name but I’d like to see some consistency when it comes to bashing dominance.
This is a small point to make, but for a more direct/less indirect comparison, Lewis’s 1:24.279 in the video dropped to 1:23.397 for his pole lap, although his Q2 time was a 23.383, meaning the fastest time of the weekend was 3.858 seconds off That Montoya Lap rather than 4.574.
I’d also be inclined to agree with those who have pointed out that Interlagos’s high altitude favors the turbo engines – when was the last time a car with an atmospheric engine won Pikes Peak, for instance? An extreme example maybe, but still.
Nitpicking aside, though, I do generally agree with the sentiment of this post. Other than the V10s’ indisputably vast aural superiority I have no time for those with rose tinted glasses putting the current format down for the sake of it. It may not always be for the lead but we’ve seen some epic racing in the last 18 months, despite the daft penalties and the limitations on fuel & tyre life and huge financial disparity between teams (bigger even than back then, surely?). As for the V6 noise, while the old screamers were euphoria, I do love a roaring baritone from an angry six-pot as well. I just wish F1’s was a better example of that. If anything IndyCar’s engines have a nicer tone of voice, on video at least. Maybe the extra displacement helps.
Pikes Peak isn’t a particularly good example. When was the last time a normally aspirated engine won anything against a turbocharged engine?
The reason lap times in Brazil are similar to 2004 are due to the resurfaced track, last year Maldonado set a time of 1:12.233, which is 2 tenths faster than pole in 2012 the last dry qualifying.
Nearly all of the top 10 are in the 1:10’s, this difference is also noted in WEC, 2012 LMP1 – 1:22.3, 2013 – 1:21.3 and 2014 – 1:17.6. God knows what time an F2004 would set today.
At Monza in 2004 Hamilton’s 2015 pole lap would have only been good enough for 19th behind both Jordan’s, not only that but he would have finished the race 3 minutes behind Barrichello. Quite a sad reality.
I do remember back in the 1980’s when I was first mesmerized by the hero’s of the day Mansell, Prost, Senna, Rosberg (sr), Piquet, etc the noise of the turbo’s seemed fine, but then I had nothing to compare them to. I went to the British Grand Prix in 1988 and thought it was loud and impressive, however along came 1989 and (as Messers Walker and Hunt would say) “The Noise” was back. As a fan who had never experienced “the noise” it was more a case of “the noise is here!”. All I can say is FANTASTIC. For me the best venue to blow your socks off was Indianapolis. I went there twice and even the tail end teams sounded just AMAZING.
Watch any YouTube content from 1989 to 2013 and you will see and hear a completely different F1. Does F1 need “The Noise”? In my humble opinion, as a diehard F1 fan for the last 30 years, the answer is absolutely YES. Does it need to be any faster? Perhaps, but that’s only relative to other formula.
Lets start a hashtag #bringbackthenoise
I agree, Bux. Been watching F1 for 30 years and the current regulations (since 2010) have seen the best F1 racing ever. Sure, DRS and fast-wearing tyres are a little superficial, but their use still requires admirable driver skill and at least gives us overtaking. As such, the viewing has been tremendous, unlike the processional roadtrains we had back in 2004. I love engine noise but have reconciled with the fact that hybrids are the future and F1 is about technology – haha, as long as we don’t go full electric like Formula E!
Dont know about the lap times, but Montoya’s was more fun to watch.
I think that’s more to do with the driver / driving style than the car. Montoya is fun to watch in pretty much any formula 🙂
[…] Life in Technicolor: Will Buxton on 2004 v 2015 comparison […]
Totally with you Will. Sadly the vested interests like to talk F1 down for reasons that will surely come clear eventually.
When watching on TV you only notice car “body” language and relative speed between cars.
I defy anyone to watch two laps from different eras and know which is quicker over a lap (without a stopwatch). I’m sure Alonso pushing hard in a Minardi was slower than Lewis but much more spectacular!
When Mika made the false pitstop in Australia 1998, you saw his car’s body language completely change when he decided to push hard, which only showed how much he was cruising up to that point.
It’s cars with that body language that are exciting to watch, which is the reason that Monaco is exciting without actually producing much in the way of overtaking. The cars just look alive in a way they did on 80s tracks (Oesterreichring, Brands Hatch, Old Silverstone, Old Hockenheim, Adelade, Mexico, Estoril etc) which featured in all those rose tinted videos.
Put any car on a flat-as-a-pancake Tilke-drome with massive runoff and it’ll look dull unless there’s another car for it to race closely against.
Agree 100% Will
I only heard one engine until the montoya video faded to black. One good engine that is…
This article hits the nail on the head superbly.
What people forget that 2000-2005 was the last true “unlimited” era of F1. Never-ending testing, rapidly-rising budgets, tyre wars (Bridgestone v. Michelin), 2005 Indygate, Schumacher/Ferrari cruising away, multiple manufacturers (who abandoned F1 on the onset of the economic crisis) and gimmicks such as one lap qualifying.
What followed after was the ever-increasing tightening of the regulations. Control Bridgestone tyres, limits on testing, limits on engines used, grid penalties, codified driving penalties, “fuel-burn” phase in Q3, engine freeze etc.
Whilst recent developments such as fuel restrictions, DRS and degrading Pirelli tyres have left drivers complaining (Mark Webber oink oink), the past 15 years of have been a continual succession of an astronomically funded constructor (Ferrari, then Red Bull, now Mercedes) leading an inevitable procession.
What many with selective memories have forgot is that 2000-2004 was the era that led to today’s convoluted and frustrating spectacle (I only stated watching F1 in 2002 at 11 years old).
The sport lacks a riveting script. Now, the worst thing would be to go WWE style, but when Kimi Raikkonen is voted most popular driver (he is hilarious though), you know the lure of F1 is lacking.
I do query the wisdom of the backlash against Pirelli from fans, drivers and teams. Me thinks a super-durable Michelin rubber may bore us even further next year.
More overall performance (downforce/horsepower) does not always equate to more entertainment. Although some may disagree, 2012 was the most competitive season I’ve seen. For me, Pirelli deserve plaudits for designing tyres no team could master, so you had to keep an eye on nearly car potentially winning due to the madness.
The main point I’m trying to state is that today’s F1 remains the same astronomical financial business it was fifteen years ago. The backmarkers continue going bankrupt, the multinational-backed teams (Red Bull oink oink) use F1 for commercial means more than ever and Bernie Ecclestone remains.
F1 is stuck in a timebomb: the same type of problems, the same motifs, the same continuity of over-regulation restricting development, the same fiscal divide, the same cycle of victims and the same disillusion amongst fans.
But yet I love it all like a dying drug addict.
You may have felt peeved by my previous post, but let me elaborate further.
The sport is in a deep existential crisis.
No-one can agree what’s best for F1.
The drivers want the maximum grip and speed, but the “unlimited” procession of Schu/Ferrari has the proven that to be counter-productive for viewers. The Overtaking Working Group tried to solve some issues associated with “dirty air” by mandating the ugly wings we have now. Of course that has done little to solve difficulties of following cars closely, so DRS is lazily used as a bandage over an axe wound.
The fans want a romanticised return to the turbo days of the 1980’s with H-pattern gearboxes. Of course selective memory is a factor, as many forget aside from the battles of Senna & Prost, teams spawned and died in swift succession (so did some drivers’ careers with them). Rouge, lad-about-town businessmen were a nuisance and races were really wars of attrition- rarely did more than twelve cars finish.
The biggest problem with modern F1 is how much everyone looks down upon it. It seems instead of praising the marvels of drivers who perform immaculately race after race with little in-season testing, we bemoan the début of a 17 year old as a sign of how “easy” F1 now is. It’s not become easier, the preparation and fitness training has become much more intensive for youngsters. The ranks of junior formulae is better structured and has a much higher level of equipment than yesteryears. If F1 has become so easy, why is that Lewis Hamilton can establish his superiority over Nico Rosberg from the first lap of a race to the last? Why is Fernando Alonso still so highly rated?
The stiff, sterile corporate atmosphere, however, does F1 no favours. It gives the sport a robotic image, therefore allowing comments such as “cars driving themselves” to become commonplace. The endless saga involving Red Bull’s engine saga encourages offensive derogatory comments from outsiders. The days of the charismatic Ayrton Senna and the brutish Nigel Mansell are evocative. Men separated from the boys as the old school would say. Not like today’s obsessive tampering of the show.